The Belonging Paradox: Finding Your Place Without Losing Yourself with Dr. Otito Iwuchukwu

Our guest today is Dr. Otito Iwuchukwu, who is here to talk about the emotional and psychological aspects of belonging and how it impacts our day-to-day lives. Dr. Iwuchukwu has a Master of Arts in Organizational Psychology from the College of Psychology and Counseling, a Ph.D. in Pharmaceutical Sciences, with a specialization in Drug Metabolism and Pharmacokinetics, from Temple University, and is currently an Associate Professor at Fairleigh Dickinson University. Her scholarly contributions appear in a range of peer-reviewed and indexed publications and have been presented at numerous research meetings and symposia across the world.

Additionally, Dr. Iwuchukwu has recently written The Belonging Paradox, a book that presents a new way to understand belonging as an adaptive journey rather than a static destination.

In this episode, we talk about why belonging is a dynamic, ongoing process, not a fixed state, and how we can create more inclusive environments for ourselves and others. We’ll also discuss how masking impacts our sense of belonging, the role boundaries play in maintaining our authenticity, and the importance of giving ourselves and others grace. If you’ve ever struggled with finding your place, especially in social settings or work environments, you’ll find practical tools in this conversation for navigating those tough moments.

The Belonging Paradox - https://www.otitoiwuchukwu.com/new-book/

Dr. Otito Iwuchukwu on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/otitoiwuchukwu/

https://tinyurl.com/y835cnrk - YouTube

https://www.patreon.com/HackingYourADHD - Patreon

William Curb: So I was thinking a great place for us to start here was to talk about what belonging means, and not just be like tolerated or something.

Otito Iwuchukwu: That's interesting because I did have a whole chapter about this just to explain it because I feel like we keep talking about belonging, but I'm not sure that everyone has the same shared understanding. The two that make the most sense to me, those that were defined by social psychologists and the first definition of belonging or understanding of belonging that I've come to see is that it's like a human need, it's like a motivation. It's something that drives us to want to be seen, liked and included with other people. So you have that relational being-ness, you have the sense that when you're with people, they want to be with you, you want to be with them.

So that's that idea. And so we all have that need, we all have that inner motivation to fulfill that need. Then there's another definition that talks about this concept of being accepted for who you are, but that's based on again, the signals that people put out that lets you know if you are a person who will be accepted in a place just as you are, that place is open for you. And so those two, I hold them hand in hand because the first definition of belonging is something that if you think about it almost like a treat, something that we all have, and we all have different levels of it. So the same way that some people are introverted, extroverted, some people like a lot of noise, some people don't, the first type of belonging is like an inner state.

Some people are very satisfied just being by themselves, right? So they don't have high levels of that belonging need to satisfy it. While some other people do want to have it all, like they want to be able to be included and belong wherever they are. And then the second part, the second type of belonging is the one that we see in our day-to-day interaction. So me talking to you, me going to the grocery store, me talking with, you know, a checkout person at the counter, those interactions, those mini interactions, right?

Sometimes can tell you if at that particular point in time you're in a state of belonging with that person, a state of acceptance and inclusion. So those two kind of go hand in hand. Because if you're a person who has a high need for belonging, you're going to be looking for cues everywhere, right? To show you that you're accepted or not. And sometimes if you don't see, then it leads to, you know, a lower stake level of belonging because you feel like no one really likes me. So those two things kind of go hand in hand.

William Curb: Yeah, I mean, there's also like, even if you're not having a high level, feeling like you're being excluded never feels good. I can definitely see it as something that is very important to like be cognisant of like, this is something I'm seeking. With a lot of times with neurodivergence, we can miss cues and stuff. And that can be missing the cues that people don't want you there or cues that like, oh, these people like me, they want me to stay around.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Exactly. Exactly. Right. So that's sometimes the issue with neurodivergence because you can misread the cues. In as much as we're really good at reading the cues of people in this room are different. They may not like me, but sometimes we also miss the cues of, you know, hey, you're welcome here. Everyone is welcome here. But then it also stands to reason that it's sometimes not everyone, people who are sometimes, you know, on the neurodivergence scale that have higher needs for belonging, right? They have that higher levels that they want to meet because it's almost like you keep reading the world around you are saying, people here are not quite like me. So then you have that need to be accepted even more than for who you are than the average person.

William Curb: I was also thinking about this in terms of neurodivergent masking and stuff where we're trying to be the person that we think the other person wants to be. And there's also an interesting aspect here of like, well, if you're not being yourself, who's belonging in that situation? Is it the person you're pretending to be or is it you?

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah. That's the tough question that we all kind of have to answer, right? Like, who is the person in this room right now? Who is the person that needs belonging? If you find out it's our inner self, it's that person that we know we are. But sometimes in order to satisfy that need, then we mask, then we adopt. I'll call it adopt, you know, adopt a different persona so that you can satisfy that need. Because with that persona now, you know, that people are going to include you more, they're going to, you know, stretch out their arms in fellowship towards you, right?

But at the back of your mind, you also know that I would rather be myself fully as opposed to this person that people kind of prefer to belong in this space. So it's that tension that I think that many times people on the neurodivergent spectrum have to deal with. And that's what makes it so hard because you're dealing with that knowing what you know. The other person doesn't know, you're masking that you don't know, but you know that you are not into situations or certain spaces that you're not yourself, right? In that sense.

William Curb: Yeah, I've been thinking about this in terms too of like, when I am doing these masking behaviors to belong in certain groups, is that, do I actually want to belong in that group? Or is it just something that I'm like, yeah, that internal need to be feel like I'm belong. But I'm like, but I don't really care if those people really like me.

Otito Iwuchukwu: It's interesting because I touch on all these things in the book to say the fundamental need, right? Like sometimes we do things just because, you know, it's kind of a check the box. You don't really care. And in that space, if people don't accept, it's like, ah, you know, it doesn't matter. And I'll give an example, right? Maybe you might be familiar with this example. So for those of us who are in academic spaces or professionals, we have to go to all these meetings, right? I'm a member of the association. I have to attend the meeting, but I don't care.

I'm just doing it for the job, right? If I meet a friend there, that becomes an additional benefit, right? I'm not going in there for belonging. I'm going in there because my job requires it of me. I feel it's something I need to do to advance, right? So in those places, my belonging needs, whether they are met or not, it doesn't matter, right? It's more in the spaces that I value, the places that I place value on, which is, you know, with maybe work situations with friendships with your family, those kinds of places that we place more value on, where if our belonging needs are worth it, that's kind of where it's more painful in that sense.

William Curb: So yeah. And it's always funny to think, like, yeah, this is something where, you know, I'm putting in a lot of effort to impress people that...

Otito Iwuchukwu: But we don't care about.

William Curb: And I'm doing it in a way where I'm not being myself, so it doesn't even matter. And it's exhausting. And I'm like.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah, yeah.

William Curb: I've been really trying to unpack a lot of masking behaviors this year with a number of the conversations I've had. And it's just been, oh, this is mostly a terrible idea. There are absolutely times where it's like, oh, yeah, I should, you know, like if I'm going to a funeral or something, tamp things down, getting audited or something like, yes, I'm going to be very professional and not wear the Hawaiian shirt to that. But, you know, and I'm giving an interview, I want to be to show who I am and have these conversations where they're fun.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah, eat your cake and have it, right? And so it's always a choice that we have to make. To me, I think the central problem or the central issue at hand to me now is how much of the choices that go against yourself are you making, right? Because every day you kind of have to choose being that if you think about 25% of the adult population or the world's population is neurodivergent.

So you have 75 to 80% of people you have to deal with. So you can escape it. And so the questions on times is weighing the consequences, like you said, you could think about that for other workspaces as well, which is why I say to people, if you've understood yourself, then you want to find the kind of work environments, the kind of, you know, work that really works for you. So you are not spending the majority of your life pushing as opposed to pulling in good towards yourself.

You keep pushing back against misunderstanding, misjudgment and all. So it's always a cost benefit analysis. And I think, you know, humans do this all the time. I just think that sometimes people on the neurodivergent spectrum have to do it way much more because you're in the minority, right? In that sense.

William Curb: Yeah, it's definitely something where, yeah, there's a lot of situations, although it is then funny to think too, like how many situations have I been in where I'm masking my behavior and the person I'm meeting is masking their behavior.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah.

William Curb: Because they're like the expectation is societal expectations of how we're supposed to be active. But you know, like I'm like talking with people, I'm like, oh, everyone in this group has ADHD. And we're all masking because we think this is not a situation where we should be.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah, in those kinds of situations, and I've been in that room before, where I thought to myself, how refreshing, right? In that sense, because, you know, it was a meeting and we kept going back and forth. And then there was a particular lady who kept asking questions. And I thought, I thought the third question, she said, you know, you have to, she didn't say you have to forgive me. She just kind of explained, she said, I'm a little bit on the spectrum. And so this is how I, you know, learn to take information in. And it wasn't, she wasn't apologizing or anything. It was just so smooth, you know, the way she put out that information. And I thought, you know, and the meeting continued.

But to me, I felt like she's giving people here in this room, some knowledge, right, some information that would help just in the general interactions going forward. And I really, I really advocate for that. As a person that in any new space you're in, when you're working with a team, you really want to put out some kind of, you know, say, feelers, right, to say, hey, I may do this, but it's because of this, right? You may see me behaving this way, but it's because of this. And then you don't apologize for it. You just put out that information and then continue in that sense.

Because what happens is you might have experienced this is you start out, you don't say anything. But then the meeting gets three points where you get really, you know, animated, excited and all that. And then you just, the mask drops off because now you're in your, you know, you're in your element. And then it's like, oh, what's happening? So I think just letting people know ahead of time that you may see this, you may do this. And that's almost like, that's what it is. I'm not trying to apologize, you know, for who I am in that sense, because there's nothing wrong with me. But I have to let you know, because you're not used to seeing these kinds of behaviors, like I think, you know, so.

William Curb: And we want to, yeah, definitely ask to look at this idea of doing the feelers because we don't know how people are going to react. And it is, yeah, that's important. Like, yeah, we have this need to feel the belonging. But until we want to be like, okay, is this going to be safe?

Otito Iwuchukwu: That is the eternal question that I think we're always asking ourselves, even if you don't ask it directly. It's always, is this a safe environment, you know, for a person like me?

William Curb: Nowadays, it feels even more important to feel like, yeah, there's a lot of places that don't feel safe. So people that feel not safe. So it's like, so yeah, doing the feelers get kind of getting that sense. So what are some other ways that people can start building in that sense of belonging in these groups?

Otito Iwuchukwu: So I think the first thing is, you know, telling stories. I really think that just being able to tell your story in one way, from one the other, and have people tell theirs, I think it kind of creates common ground. And that's what I meant, you know, the feeling thing or the putting out the feelers is a way of telling your story, right, in a very abbreviated form. So just being able to tell your story and tell it without being bashful about it, right, to say this is kind of who I am, you know, I didn't make myself this way kind of thing.

And then I do think just learning to for us to learn to be, it's not judgmental, but just creating an environment where mistakes are allowed to be because we'll all make mistakes, right? Even interactions, I can't count how many times I've, you know, fumbled as they say, stuck a foot, you know, in the mouth, right, that kind of thing. And it used to be so much that I'll ruminate, ruminate, ruminate. But then after I started giving myself a lot of grace to say, hey, people make mistakes all the time. And then, you know, people are not really thinking about you in that sense, right? So just be yourself in a way. So that's, I think, is important.

And then I just said now that, you know, giving myself grace. So giving grace to ourselves and to other people as well. Because what I've come to find out too is once we put in this, you know, labels or put in these things of I'm neurodivergent or not, I do think it can create, you know, a chasm where even now the people on the neurodivergence spectrum almost start to, I don't want to use or discriminate, but you start to treat the other people differently. And it's like, that's not what we want here, right? Yes, we want the label so we can understand ourselves better.

But we're not trying to say when there's super camp and then the other people there are not, you know, good people or things like that, right? So I think it's that shared grace just to say, hey, I can see why that person is like that, right? Because they're neurotypical. And I know why I behave like this because I'm neurodivergent, right? Because I know I've been in spaces where I sometimes think to myself, what can't you all be more creative? Like, why do you have to stay along the path of I would say non-divergence? But then I realize that's my brain, right? They don't see anything wrong in what they're doing. So I have to be patient and understanding and mindful of that. So yeah.

William Curb: Yeah, it's always funny when you're just like, there's this obvious solution over here. Why are we not looking at this thing? Right here. Just think a little bit differently.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Took me a while to understand that not everybody thought that we like a long while. I mean, I guess almost all of my adult life because it's just like, how are you not seeing this? Like, you know, when, especially when you're in a team and you're trying to walk through things and you're saying here are some of the obvious, you know, to me at the time, here are some of the obvious challenges that we may see. And it's like, why are you always talking about challenges?

I said, no, but it's kind of so obvious to me. And then it turns out that that becomes a challenge and an even bigger challenge. And so it's like, how do I strike this balance without it making it look like I'm doing challenges or trying to poke things? But sometimes some things are so clear to me, like night and day. And sometimes I wonder, how are you not seeing this? But that's it, right? It's just the way the brains are wired, I think.

William Curb: Yeah. And it's important to, yeah, as you were saying, the labels can kind of give people that sense of people. But it's like, our identity is so much more than what that label insists. Like, oh, yes, I am ADHD, but I'm also, you know, all these other things. And I'm not going to get along with everyone else that has ADHDs. That's not my in group. My in groups is people that, all these other things. And even in those in groups, there's going to be further in groups and stuff.

Otito Iwuchukwu: There's going to be. And I think that's what sometimes makes people, that's the hard part of people, even accepting that they're in groups. I'm like, they're in groups everywhere, right? Like you, the fact that I'm even saying, you know, some people think differently than me. That means if I see someone who thinks like me, I'm going to be almost like automatically affiliated with them because like, ooh, you know, a relief, somebody who thinks similar to me. But then like you said, even the ADHD as a syndrome or whatever, it's so different.

It has so many different facets, right? People don't get it. You just think it's all hyperactivity. Maybe not, right? There are so many aspects of this. That people have to come to terms with, which is why I do think that the prevalence is increasing because now they are saying it's not just the typical thing that we know, right? Of a child who sits still, right?

William Curb: Yeah, we have a much better understanding that it's like, yeah, this is a spectrum and that's all of these things. And I think one of the interesting ideas here too is so we do have this idea, like so I was supposed to talk about these in groups within groups and we do have sometimes these times where like, I really want to belong to this group, but I'm not. And I'm kind of think that's an interesting idea for us to kind of play with here because there are other things for like, yeah, I want to belong with that group, but for whatever reason, it's not meshing.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah, yeah. And that's the paradox. I think that, you know, I don't think there's anyone who hasn't gone through that where you have a group that you really want to be in. And I think this starts from, you know, elementary school to playground. You want to be friends with certain people and they're like, no, you know, we don't want to be friends with you, right? So it's that concept. And so to me, I do think that part of it is acceptance, right? Acceptance, like you can't force it. You cannot make people like you.

You cannot make people, you know, want to be friends with you. So just accepting that this is the way the situation is. And then if it's a large in groups, recognize that you can still be friends or acquaintances or you be in relationship with one or two people in that in groups, right? You may not be in the full in groups, but you can still, you know, belong to the extent that you would want to with one or two people, right? Because belonging as personal is also collective. So I can, you know, chat to you and you and I will be friends, but it may not mean that I'll be friends with your larger group of friends, right?

So just understanding that I would say paradox becomes, it helps a lot. Let me put it that way. It helps a lot, you know, as opposed to this ruminating of thinking why don't people like me? Why don't no one want to be friends? All of that. It's just like, okay, this is what it is. What else can I do here? Who else can I go be friends with? Who else can I offer acceptance and belonging to as opposed to, you know, standing at the door and knocking and no one is opening? Is they say, go find another door or create your own door so you can open it up to other people?

William Curb: Yeah, this is also the opposite side of things too, where you have someone that's trying to build that foundation with you and you're like, I don't.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Exactly.

William Curb: I don't think like you do. I don't know. How do I give you the message that you should go somewhere else?

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah, I mean, if somebody came to me again, I wouldn't want to be too prescriptive about this, but I guess that's one of the symptoms, the directness, the over-directness, right? If that's sense, you know, because I've been known to tell people, I don't think we'll make good friends. I'll tell you directly. Like I'm not, I wouldn't try to, you know, I wouldn't try to ignore the situation or move away or, you know, avoid it or escape. I just, you know, hit the nail on the head and just say, I'm not sure we'll make good friends, right?

We could be acquaintances or we could be whatever, but I'm not sure we'll make as good a friend because I may not be able to give you what you need, right? So I tell people that. I remember someone asking me to join a group and I literally said, I generally don't join groups with people I'm at work with, right? Maybe when I leave the organization, then I will be in the group, but I like to keep work at work and then, you know, off-work, off-work. I don't like to mix those two things. She was extremely surprised because everybody was, you know, joining and, you know, friending and I'm like, no, I don't do that.

So, yeah. Even though, as I said, it's a kind of new, there'll be a social consequence to this. Like there will be a social consequence where the person might say, what do you think you are this and that? But I feel like, you know, as an adult, I've been in situations where this, that has not worked out so well at all. And I'm like, I don't want to be a victim of this in that sense. So let's keep the spaces separate for as long as we can, you know, until I leave the particular environment, then I can come back, circle back and, you know, we can be friends.

William Curb: I feel that shows that importance of keeping boundaries while still seeking the belonging. But yeah, because oftentimes, I know that's what kind of with the masking is, you're often violating your own boundaries to try and find that acceptance.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah. So in my book, I have a framework and the B is boundaries. That's the B, like just recognizing that you can be friends with everyone. You know what I mean? What I mean friends, I've just mean relationship, right? Let's just put it like, you cannot be in relationship with everyone. And vice versa. So this is not just about you, them to you, as I said earlier, and then also recognizing the spaces where you don't need to waste your time looking for belonging, right? Just being able to recognize that allows you to use your finite energy well, right? As opposed to dissipating it, just trying to be all things to all people.

William Curb: Nothing is going to be less satisfying than trying to please everyone. Because you're never going to do it and you're just going to not feel good about yourself. I did this next kind of nicely transitions to another area I want to talk about, which is social media, where people do often try to do that idea of trying to please everyone. I think social media is especially interesting when you have these like huge spaces where you have like hundreds of thousands of people. And so you can't belong with all of them, but it's also something where a lot of people try.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting because with social media, I don't know what has been your experience because it could be overwhelming, right? For a person, sometimes ADHD, part of the problem is the stimuli. Like you have too much of it, then it just gets overwhelming. And so social media is a prime example. It's almost like too many voices, a lot of stimulation. Who do I listen to? Where do I end up? That's the same way. Like that's the same way you feel. Like if I'm feeling this way, then it impacts you to say, if I put out my voice, who's going to listen? Right? So you're in this back and forth there.

But I also think that one of the outside advantages is this uncanny ability to tease out fluff, right? From real things. So very, very well, you just know, that's not true. I can see that this needs a little bit of digging into, or this seems like a conspiracy theory, things like that. So you're a bit more attuned, I would say, to BS than the average person in that sense. And so social media then becomes what you make of it. Because too much of it, right? All that dopamine and all, it's not good for anybody. Talk less of people on the neurodivergent spectrum. And so with social media, I just always, I was caution, right? To not allow it engulf you.

William Curb: Yeah, I'm glad I have not tried to build a social presence beyond just like, hey, this is what this podcast is. But I'm like, I don't want to live on social media. That's...

Otito Iwuchukwu: It's very overwhelming. And I feel like, now they say, oh, people are, like you said, live on social media. It's almost like because you've been sucked in. If you stand there and just say, no, I just know if I go down this path, may not be the greatest for me, then you can minimize or maximize your time, depending on how you want to look at it. But I always caution because it's a sinkhole for people with distractibility issues. Social media is a sinkhole.

William Curb: I spend enough time online. I don't need to make it like this chronic habit. The chronically online can be, yeah, not good. And I imagine that people don't like, you don't actually get a sense of belonging in a group when it's that big and spread out.

Otito Iwuchukwu: You know what they talk about? Parasocial relationship. Like it's not real. You know it's not real, but it's your, you know, your senses are clamoring for this thing. And so I do think it's that dissonance that just gets people because I have a million followers online. But in real life, you don't have that many friends. So it's like, how did this happen? So you're always having to put on a show. Like you said, continually masking now, right? If we use the term masking to play for the audience. Meanwhile, your real life, right? You haven't optimized it in terms of the relationships and the things that, you know, help you belong.

Because it's not just relationships. You've owned things, nature, things like that, that help you fully belong to yourself. You haven't optimized it. So it becomes a very dicey situation. Is it that you're optimizing real life so you can be a better person online? But then the Leo is too much, right? The Leo of the clamouring, the likes and all of that. It's tough for anybody to resist that for too long, right? In that sense.

William Curb: That's one of the things that I think about often doing content creation is like, am I making content for me at some point? Or have I shifted over to making, to what I think it's going to make the number go up?

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah. Yeah.

And that number doesn't matter how big it is. I'm always going to want it to go bigger.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's never, it's unsatiable. That's the way I put it. You always want to, you know, you have a million followers. You want two million, you want three million. And it's like, those are metrics, right? They're not, I think the people who are serious about business and content creation know, these are just metrics, right? So I'm just using them to get me to the next level in business. And not because I think that their real life relationships that kind of come out of this to any extent.

William Curb: Yeah. Knowing that the algorithms there are being gamed all the time in ways that are not good.

Otito Iwuchukwu: All the time. So yeah.

William Curb: I was reading is that, you know, you have this emphasis that belong me is this ongoing journey. It's not a fixed state. And I think that's a great idea for people to.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yeah. It's not fixed states because, you know, if you, if you set it up as that fixed state, if anything then changes like an equation, right? Like if you think about belonging, you have to think about the environment. So you think about you as a person and you think about the environment. So if you made it like a fixed state, if anything changes in the environment, then it's going to change your person, right? Your sense of belonging as a person. But if you understand that, okay, the environment can change, and you understand that, okay, you know, this belonging need, right? I just need to keep making sure that I'm feeling it in the ways that I know best how to, as opposed to looking to only one source for it.

William Curb: Well, yeah. And yeah, we know that like, yeah, people change over time. Now, nothing lasts. And even though we feel like, oh, yeah, this is how things are, yeah, things change.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Like, we change, right? We change. So that's why I mean, that's why I said it's a function of two things, the person and the environment. So I can decide to move out of one environment, which means then I have to now find my belonging in the new environment. So it's almost like, you know, this function, right? Like an equation, what do you call it? Like an algebraic thing, where, as things change, you just have to keep making sure that you're satisfying your belonging needs.

William Curb: Yeah, not sacrificing yourself to try and find that. For me, that's just something I always come back to with ADHD, because I know that was my habit, was to be, not be myself, to be, to try and find it along. And sometimes kind of worked, but overall it, you know, like it was a bad strategy.

Otito Iwuchukwu: The thing about masking and all that is, it will always work. It's just depending on the efforts that it takes from you day in, day out, you know? I do think, you know, use the term masking as there is a special thing. I think even people who are new to people do this all the time, it's, you know, there's a term for it. Like the perception, like, you know, you can always working to keep a particular perception of you in that sense, what you know as organizational politics. I don't think people who, you know, behave a certain way at work that we know, I'm not sure that's how they are in real life, right? That's why when you see them in other spaces, like that's not the person I know, because we show up differently in different spaces, like everybody does. But then I think for us, it now has to do with relational interactions. Just the one-on-one in those spaces sometimes become a little bit harder.

William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, definitely don't want to come off with like, yeah, masking is something only, but yeah, because we all show up in, you know, like we're different people around our friends than we are around our parents. Like, in...

Otito Iwuchukwu: Yep, different people at work, at home, right, in that sense, yeah.

William Curb: And it's not even like, and it's not necessarily even a bad thing, it's just, you know, like, this is, because we aren't, we're as, we are belonging as a ongoing process, I'm an ongoing process myself in all aspects.

Otito Iwuchukwu: It's being situationally aware, right? We talked at the beginning about the cues. I think the question for us is sometimes missing those cues, right? Cues that other people would have readily seen, we may miss it, so that's it.

William Curb: Yeah, I guess bringing it back to the idea of like, yeah, you can be multiple people, but still authentically be yourself.

Otito Iwuchukwu: To me, that's the final call. Yes, that is it.

William Curb: All right, so I was wondering if there were any final thoughts you wanted to leave the audience with?

Otito Iwuchukwu: I think it's this, you know, concept, like if we're talking about my book and I talk about the framework, is that understanding that we're all needed as we are, right? Because I think the world tries to get us to feel like there's something wrong and I'll use that example now. I'm not sure for you, it's the concept of time and tardiness. That is just such a big issue with people at DHD and the way people look at it as a moral, you know, offense, right, in that sense. And I keep thinking to myself, if only you understood that the person on the other side is trying their best, right?

They're trying their best to make sure they get their time, but they lose consciousness of time. It's nothing about you. It's not a disrespect of your person because that's how people couch it to say, oh, this is so disrespectful. And they're like, no, no, no. The person on that side is so respectful of you, which is why you're saying that I'm even showing off, you know, as they are all bit leads, you know. So things like that, right? They tend to eat away at your sense of self because it's just like, what can't I be on time? What can't I be this?

What can't I be that? And so is that understanding of just giving yourself grace, understanding that your being here is just necessary, right? For the time and space that you're in and then empathy, you know, to be empathetic towards ourselves and to others. I can talk about that in group, out group. We talked about that. And so, you know, from that space and recognize that you always be sometimes in that liminal space, right? Sometimes belonging, sometimes not, just accepting it as part of, you know, the things that come to us in this life, one life that we get to live.

William Curb: Awesome. Well, if people want to find out more about you, find a bar about your book, The Belonging Paradox, where should they go?

Otito Iwuchukwu: Okay. So my website, so my website, I think I can give the laces, otitoiwuchukwu.com and then /, you know, The Belonging Paradox book. So can join the community. I look at it as a community of people, right? Who wants to belong, yet sometimes don't belong, but you find your way, you know, anyway. So that's that. I'm also on LinkedIn. And then my Facebook author page is the same otitoiwuchukwu.com, underscore author page.

William Curb: Awesome. And we'll include links to all of those in the show notes so people can get that easily. Thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you for this great conversation. I think a lot of good bringing you a lot out there.

Otito Iwuchukwu: Okay.

This Episode's Top Tips

1. Belonging isn’t a fixed state, but an ongoing process that changes with both your internal state and the external environment. Recognizing this can help you manage expectations and frustrations when your sense of belonging fluctuates.

2. Recognize that you don’t have to belong to every group, and not all groups are meant for a deep, personal connection. Don’t force yourself to belong in every situation; if a group or environment doesn’t feel right, it’s okay to step back.

3. You don’t have to be liked by everyone. Instead, it’s important for us to focus on finding spaces where we can truly belong. It’s about finding authentic connections, not chasing superficial acceptance.