Loneliness, Addiction and Connection with Niklas Jonnson
Today I’m talking with Nick Jonsson, a best-selling author, executive coach, and co-founder of Executives’ Global Network. Nick is the author of Executive Loneliness: The 5 Pathways to Overcoming Isolation, Stress, Anxiety & Depression in the Modern Business World. His work focuses on helping leaders tackle isolation, burnout, and addiction while finding healthier, more sustainable ways to succeed.
Now I realize that doesn’t seem particularly ADHD focused, but I thought that this would be a good interview to take because adults with ADHD have a substantially increased risk of substance use disorders. And so while Nick’s work doesn’t specifically cover ADHD, there is still a lot that you can glean from it.
In our conversation, Nick shares his own journey through loneliness, denial, and alcohol addiction, and how vulnerability and connection became essential tools for his recovery. We dig into practical strategies for opening up in safe spaces, replacing harmful coping mechanisms with meaningful activities, and creating accountability systems that support long-term well-being. We also touch on how social media and other modern habits can quietly feed into loneliness, and what it takes to build resilience against them.
YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/y835cnrk
William Curb: I would love to hear, start with just some of your story and about this idea of loneliness that I think is really prevalent for a lot of people nowadays.
Nick Jonsson: Well, I suffered from loneliness myself. And if you ask me, you know, when I was right in it, I would be in full blown denial about it. I wouldn't admit that I was lonely. It's now looking back at it. And it was about 10 years ago. I isolated my in the workplace, and then I withdraw from home. So I resigned from a job and filed for my divorce. That was some of the issues that happened to me when I went into that dark hole, you could say.
William Curb: I mean, I think it's really interesting too that you say that in reflection, that it's like, you're like, oh, I was in this like pit of loneliness. But at the time, I didn't realize it. Because it feels like something that you should like, oh, yeah, I know when I'm lonely, but oftentimes it's when we feel alone, it feels like there's a reason for it. It's not like, we're like, oh, we I'm not seeking connections. Just like this is I'm, it's shame and all these other things that are piled on and like, oh, I deserve this kind of fate.
Nick Jonsson: Yes, certainly. And I think many times, loneliness is, you know, built from perhaps a lack of connection, perhaps a lack of trust. It could be in the workplace, for example, if we have some challenges, and a lot of my work is touching on addictions, especially alcoholism and so on. And if someone is suffering from an alcohol addiction, naturally in the workplace, then you do everything you can to hide that you're trying to show that you're functioning, you want to show up, you want to deliver and so on. And therefore, you know, maybe you withdraw, you're distant and you isolate yourself and you're avoiding all the conversations, perhaps with your colleagues and direct reports and bosses, because you're worried that they will find out. Therefore, you become, you know, further withdrawn and isolated. It can be any addiction or any mental health issues that we suffer from. I see this similar behavior in withdrawing and isolating oneself as a form of protecting ourselves.
William Curb: I've seen a lot of parallels here with this idea of masking that a lot of people with mental health conditions do where they just pretend that they're like, everything's fine. And, you know, you have two phases that you show and it's incredibly draining to have that be where this is who I am on the outside, but on the inside, I'm feeling completely different.
Nick Jonsson: Yeah, it's so true. And I can remember in the job I was referring that I resigned from actually had a very good connection with my boss. We used to have barbecue at her place on Sundays, but I was going through some challenges at the time and I didn't open up about those. Looking back at it, you know, if I would have come and knocked the door and shared what I was going through, I'm 100% sure she would have supported me.
But that was not how I saw it. I was right in it and I couldn't see that I should have just asked for help. I should have asked for support and I should have dared to be a bit vulnerable. And these days, I'm talking a lot about vulnerability, that we can build up some trust and we don't have to be too worried about being judged.
The direct report and the boss is there to help us. And I think we can have a chance to strengthen our relationship by being a little bit vulnerable. I'm not at all advocating for oversharing here. But if we are going through some challenges and it's work related and can affect how we perform, then it's better to flag that and say, how can we solve this together?
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. Because it does seem that there's these issues that we vary them. It's not going to get better. It's going to fester instead.
Nick Jonsson: Yeah, absolutely. I think everything does that if we just leave it.
William Curb: Because there are certain things in life, you're like, Oh, I just I put that off and it got better. But this does not feel like one of those issues where we're ever going to get out of it by not actually addressing it.
Nick Jonsson: We're fully aligned. And that was the issue, you know, and I went around with having that same issue played on my head for one year. In fact, it was some issues related to my work that started this.
I was doing really well in business development, great in sales. But on the back of that, we had to pitch for a lot of projects. There was a lot of numbers, a lot of spreadsheets. And I'm not very good with numbers. So I might have done some mistakes. There might be some issues, some challenges in there that I might have missed. And Robert, by then, open up to my team and share that with them and asking them to please double check it, have my back go to my boss and ask for extra resources or somewhat check it.
I didn't want to open up about that because I would thought that this might be seen as a weakness. So instead, I signed off things that I wasn't overly confident that it was correct. And even until today, I don't know if there were some mistakes in there. But just the fact that I didn't share openly about those mistakes, that started to play on my head. And I thought, maybe there's some issues there. And it went as far as as soon as my phone rang in the office, I was certain that it was my boss calling me and telling me to come over to the office and terminate me.
As soon as I saw an email coming in from my boss, I start to think that this must be it. There was something bad. So I started catastrophize everything and thinking in the negative terms of everything. And that's why in the end, it went so far in my own head that I resigned from the job.
Because I thought that at least then I'm in charge of this situation rather than be caught out. And it was all just things I made up in my mind. There was no reality to it.
William Curb: The stories we say in our head become feel like the reality. And then you can go talk to the person and they're like, Oh, this is what the story I've been telling.
And then they go, that is not the story that I have. Thinking this through, what are some of the ways that people can start kind of moving into the direction of correcting for this? Because it's easy to be like, yeah, we should open up with vulnerability to people. That's also something that it's incredibly hard to just do off the bat. It feels a lot of people are just going to feel overwhelmed by that idea of like, Oh, I know what to do, but I have no idea how to do it. Yes.
Nick Jonsson: And we need to start small and we need to start in a safe space. And starting point can be just in a relationship one on one, where we can practice that vulnerability muscle, just like we train our muscles in the gym, and they get bigger.
The vulnerability is the same. We start small and then we expand from there and do it in a safe space. And think about, you know, if you have a friend who you trust, or do you have a colleague you trust, or do you have someone you worked with before, perhaps someone externally, who you look up to, perhaps someone who is sort of a mentor or someone a few years older than you, then ask for their permission to meet up for coffee or go for a walk and say that, you know, you have something on your mind that you would like to share something that you're going through and ask them if they would be there for you. So you're setting the scene. And then once you have that, you know, say that, you know, this is something that is confidential, please keep it between us.
So you're actually setting those parameters so they understand that this is something sensitive, so it doesn't leak out. And then you can start sharing. And I'm a big believer in starting this vulnerability and building our relationships a bit deeper in the good times, so that when the bad times come, and they come to all of us, we will experience loss and in our lives. And therefore, if we have established and built these relationships in the good times, we are ready for the tougher times. And especially for us men who are so bad at this in general, women tend to be a bit more open, a bit more vulnerable, they tend to have perhaps two, three friends who they have quite close to themselves, who they will call and they will share when they're going through something. But as men, typically, we just isolate when we face a crisis and we don't haven't picked up those connections naturally. So therefore, we don't have the natural tendency to pick up the phone and call someone in the same way. So therefore, I would say that we need to be proactive about this.
And that's what I'm advocating for and why I'm sharing that here today. And if someone doesn't have a friend, then there are, you know, all these hotlines, helplines, you have 12 step programs, if someone is suffering from addiction, there's something for everyone there, full of volunteers ready to help. Of course, you also have coaches and therapists and so on who you can talk to. And of course, they will be confidential and there will be a safe space to share.
William Curb: Yeah, and I know also with approaching things from like online groups can also be helpful too, because you do have that aspect of being anonymous. That can be really helpful for people that are like, because often a lot of these things, they feel like so much shame around it because it just feels that I should be able to do this, I shouldn't be feeling these feelings. And those are kind of dangerous thoughts, because it makes it so much harder to open up when you feel you shouldn't be feeling the feelings. But you can't actively control how you're feeling about a situation that easily.
Nick Jonsson: Yeah, and it's so true. And especially if we grown up by being told, you know, that we shouldn't cry many boys, perhaps at least our generation have grown up, they know, big boys don't cry and you know, be a man.
And it's still, it's still those kind of, you know, saying so still around today, even though they fortunately are getting outdated. And it is okay to show our feelings and to open up increasingly, which is a blessing. And I see that in the younger generation, I have a teenage son, and we can discuss quite openly about his feelings and thoughts and so on, while I've hardly ever had such a conversation with my dad, who is 70 plus now.
William Curb: Yeah, I'm trying to think if I had any of those conversations with my dad as an adult, probably as a child, there were some in there. But as an adult, I don't think that was something we ever really went through, because that was just not something that was on the radar of important conversations.
But it is. And this is the only I with my children, I always try to be very open to be like, Hey, I'm amazed how just giving more communication of like how I'm feeling in a situation when I'm like, Hey, you need to be I'm feeling very on edge right now, if you could like back off from this thing you're trying to do, it'd be great. And then being like, Oh, yeah, that's, and I understand the situation rather than just letting it escalate, it goes much smoother usually.
Nick Jonsson: And I believe that's the right place to be to be present to try to understand asking some open question and just be curious to understand what's there. And then when we lead by example and explaining also if we are feeling a bit stressed on if we're feeling some challenges, then share those in front of the people around us who love us. And, and you know, just be a bit open and say, I'm not feeling my best today, you know, I have this test coming up, or I have this assignment I'm working on, I'm a little bit stressed about it, but then say, Oh, but what I'm going to do, I'm going to go for a walk in the forest now.
And then when we come back, we can share, I feel much better now. So they can see the progress. And I think at least for kids, they will, they will copy us as adults. I, I do quite a lot of sport myself. And I never have to tell my son to go and do his exercise, because he's seen me exercising most of most of the days when we are together, for example.
William Curb: Yeah, it is funny how much that kids pick up from you without you saying anything at all. And just being like, Oh, if I'm the example, that's, I become the blueprint for how they think you should live. And then I'm being like, Oh, well, that's how it is. I really need to be making sure I'm setting a good example here.
Absolutely. One of the things I was also thinking about here, because we talked a little bit about alcoholism earlier and addiction as being often a coping mechanism for these feelings, when they don't being like, I don't want to feel these feelings that I'm feeling. So I'm going to turn to alcohol or any number of other addictions where it's like, I can just kind of space myself out from what I'm feeling. Tell me a little bit about going through addiction and coming back from that. Like, how is that something that? Yeah, just give it to you there.
Nick Jonsson: Yeah. So if I'm looking at my own life, the case I spoke through before, when I started to get some challenges mentally about my workplace when I isolated myself, because I didn't speak up because I didn't ask for help. I needed some way to cope with it. And what I did was basically trading my gym membership for a bar stool and a healthy diet to fast food and pizza. And I started to drink after work and needed to, you know, have a few drinks after work to wind down to forget about the challenges and the issues and the pain that I had in the workplace. And I started to understand, well, this is working, you know, I go to the bar off to have a few drinks and I feel a bit better. But of course, having done that then up to a year, almost every day more or less, then, you know, I had gained a lot of weight, I lost all my fitness and this starts to become a very bad habit for me that eventually tipped over to an addiction.
And I was in full blown denial about it. And, you know, we hear so many people saying that, you know, I need a drink to wind down after work, why deserve it? I worked hard. And but in the end, it seems like we, we then are drinking over the challenges, we're drinking over the stress, we drinking, then we celebrate some contract winning in India, and it just become full circle. And as we know, alcohol is the present. What is happening then to the mornings is that you're starting to have, you know, hangovers and they get worse and worse and worse and more anxiety. And in the end, then, you know, we clearly are not drinking to be happy, but we are drinking to medicate ourselves to just go through life. And that's the stage I reached eventually, I had become addicted just like someone can become addicted to coffee or cigarettes, I'd become addicted to alcohol. But in this world in this society, that's full of stigma there, someone to admit that they have problem with alcohol, people are wondering what's wrong with that person.
So that is the issue that I was going through and facing. And that's what I see in so many others as well. It's the, it's, we don't, it's easy to step out and say that, you know, I'm a smoker and I'm addicted to the struggle to quit, then to say that I'm struggling to quit with alcohol. That's at least what I've seen.
William Curb: Yeah, there's always seems to be some sort of hierarchy to addiction where like people are like, Oh, this is a problem that you have because of this. But there's the what people often view as a very like self inflicted thing where it's just like, well, if you know, it's a problem, you should quit. But it's of course not that easy.
Nick Jonsson: It's definitely not that easy. And with alcohol, for example, it's a highly addictive dragon. Once you train your body to get used to medicating yourself with it to calm yourself down. Then, you know, once you have trained your body to know, well, if I have two, three drinks, I feel better.
And the body will certainly remember that. Then you have that physical craving kicking in. And then before you know it, you know, you go to that space to feel better than the issue is after two, three drinks, if you become addicted, you can't really stop.
And that was in my case. So the last sort of two years until I hit my rock bottom in 2018, I had, I had also become, you know, a day drink, I needed to have a drink during the day to calm my nerves to be able to just function. I didn't then party or drink to have fun anymore, you know, it was no fun in it.
William Curb: With Eddie, yeah, addiction, it's becomes just life. It doesn't become why you started. And it's something I know with ADHD is very common to have. There's a lot of addictions that people go through because of these dopamine cycles where they're like, Oh, I need to feel good. And then it can quickly spiral out of control where it's just like, Yeah, this is now who I am. And the first step I always have to admit, see is that you have to acknowledge that there's some sort of problem. And how would someone get to that point where they're like, Oh, yeah, this is a problem.
Nick Jonsson: Yeah. And that is the challenge, because most people would be in full blown denial, because if addiction is running the life, you know, and controlling us, then it's only perhaps when we're so sick and tired of being sick and tired that we desperately ask for help. And we're talking about the rock bottom here and rock bottom is different for everyone, you know, and most people are not willing to make that big switch until something catastrophic happened.
Typically, it's perhaps a loss of health, or like in my case, or perhaps, you know, they've done some serious damage to themselves, the body or they lost a job or finances, divorce. It's very, very common that it's the partner that jumps in. I used to have the AA, which is Alcoholics Anonymous Hotline in Singapore, where people would call in, you know, if they had issues with alcohol, but nine out of 10 calls would be the partner and typically the woman, the wife then calling and about the husband drinking too much, you know, and crying and begging and asking for help, how can I make him stop and, and that's normally the wake up call. And then it's about, you know, asking that person to come together with both of them to come to a meeting and getting the help they need. Because once you come into the first meeting, which is what I found, then the doors to recovery is open. It's that first step that is so difficult, and we do everything we can to avoid it. And it doesn't have to be alcohol can be for any addiction and issues in the world. I mean, we have drug addictions, but also we have growing trends of social media addictions, we have gambling addictions and so on.
And it's the same for all of them. Once we meet like minded who gone through it before and we get that support, and we start to just open up and release it. That's where the path to recovery lies.
William Curb: Yeah. And so one of the questions that's coming up for me here is so yeah, rock bottom is a very easy place for people to be like, Oh, yeah, this is a problem. Are there ways people can like kind of self reflect and kind of get there before they hit those points where they're like, because obviously we don't want to go to rock bottom for digging ourselves out of a hole, we'd like to come up from a better place.
Nick Jonsson: So I have myself actually educated myself in London at the sober club, where I'm now a sober coach working with people who are sort of in the gray zone. Let's say that we can call them gray zone drinkers. So it's someone who's perhaps want to challenge their relationship with alcohol. Perhaps it's doing some damage to the health, the finances of the relationships and they want to take ownership for this. And then it doesn't have to be as most of the 12 step programs is set up on 100% abstinence, 100% stop. And that step can be quite big. And especially for someone who perhaps is not there. And if you're having a little bit of a problem, why would you come into a recovery meeting to say, hi, my name is Anamina Alkoholik. If you are not sure you are, and maybe it's not that big of a problem.
The issue is that there's not much support in that middle space. So that's why now we have these sober coaches, which I've educated myself, and I'm working with quite a lot of men and women to help them with that. Just like someone wants to pick up a fitness habit, they want to eat healthier, and we can go and see nutritionists.
Now there's also the help for anyone in that gray zone. And then it's about mapping out what is the pros and cons of that you're getting from alcohol and getting an understanding and setting some goals and milestones and just measure it and look after it and making that positive switch. What I say is the most important here is if you want to remove something from your life, and let's say in alcohol, for example, alcohol might give you the social life. It might give you the social connection, and it'll also give you some stimulants. So you need to then, before you remove it, map out what is it that you love to do instead. What are your activities that you can do with some sober friends?
And it can be anything from switching that after work drink to perhaps a tennis game with a friend or some other healthy activity. So it's about being conscious about that. And that is one way to prevent us from going to rock bottom. Yeah.
William Curb: And I love the idea that, yeah, we want to know what we're replacing the activity with because if we're just like, I'm just not going to do this thing. And then you get to the situation where it's like, well, I have a choice of going to the bar or I don't know. And in that moment, it's very hard to come up with that solution that you want.
Yeah, absolutely. And I also see it as something where it's like, yeah, it also needs to be something that I want to do. I see this when I've talked to people about dieting things where they're like trying to remove bad foods from their, or not bad, but foods that they don't want to eat from their diet and that their options for what they're changing it to are not things they actually want to eat. And so that's a road to failure because it's going to be really hard to push your way through always making a choice from something you want to do to something you don't want to do.
Nick Jonsson: Yeah, absolutely. And in the work as a sober coach, what I do is actually starting already as a childhood, mapping out what activities did you choose to love as a child? You know, what sports did you participate in? What are some of the activities perhaps you stopped over the years? And you might find that someone was, you know, an avid swimmer in the teams, but then the career and job and marriage came in the way and they stopped swimming. And then it's about being curious about those activities. Perhaps you can join, you know, a swim squad again as an adult and reconnect then a bit with your younger self, your purpose and meeting some friends and getting that connection there.
So you're replacing some unhealthy habits with positive habits. And I was supporting one gentleman who during the COVID pandemic, he lost his partner and he lost both his parents. So he isolated himself naturally and felt very, very, very lonely. There was so much loss in his life. And as I coached him through this, he also had both a drug and alcohol addiction, actually.
And then we were looking at what to replace it with. And it was just that he was a swimmer as a young person. And now being almost approaching 70 years of age when we spoke, when we found out his love for swimming, we looked up a swim academy for him, for adults. And despite his age, he joined and he's now joining swim competitions around the world. He's swimming in the ocean, man. And he just was on the podium at a five kilometer ocean swim competition. And you know, he's living the life like a teenager again, and he's so full of life. So he really, instead of looking at that something negative, he turned it into something very positive for himself.
William Curb: Yeah. And I see this physical movement and physical activities as a great way to start moving yourself into a direction that you want to go because often sedentary lifestyle doesn't really grant a lot of the things that make us feel good. And so that is a primary way we might move towards doing some of these more addictive activities to have this like instant gratification feeling to them. Yeah.
Nick Jonsson: And especially, of course, everything online and social media and apps and so on is the big issue of the younger generation. I did a TEDx talk last year and it was about sleep because what we are finding is that many university students are keeping the mobile devices on vibration under the pillow. You know, they want to wake up when they get messages and so they're not sleeping. And that is a full blown addiction by so many young people. And that's going to be a major issue for the future and for them. So it's about again. Same circle there.
It's about taking ownership, agreeing to that this is an issue and what can I do instead to replace this and sort it out and having an open conversation about it, which we need to have in our families and with our friends and also in the workplaces.
William Curb: And I could not imagine leaving my phone right next to my head to wake me up. That would be I would feel awful all day. Sleep is always something I'm working on because I know how important it is. But it is amazing what I like. Here other people talking about these habits that they have that are so antithetical to getting good sleep, especially around phone usage and stuff. Because that's in another completely other addiction category to talk about because it is something that we can't really go without at this point in modern society. But it is something that we can set a lot of limits on that. And it's important that we do
Nick Jonsson: 100 percent about putting boundaries and be quite disciplined there, just like with alcohol, you know, for someone who's a social drink, it's about when you start as a young person to learn quickly, to put some boundaries around yourself and control it. Same goes with social media, but just like someone can be addicted to alcohol, you can be addicted to social media as well. So there is when the vulnerability comes in and the, you know, the awareness and the self-awareness and the ownership of what's actually happening here and just being open for it. And many times someone who's addicted to alcohol, many times probably heard from people that you're doing it too much and so on, but they would do everything to defend it and maybe even change friends or stop seeing the people who complain to them and instead move to people who are behaving like them. So that's the issue we're dealing with here.
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. It's a cycle that just reinforces itself when you're trying to find those things that are going to help you reinforce the things that you know you shouldn't be doing, but you want to be doing. I feel a little remiss saying no that you shouldn't be doing because I know the self-talk I've had whenever I've been dealing with some activity like that, where it's just like, oh, I just need to do this right now. Otherwise, I won't be able to focus or something. And it is in my head something that's going to help me along in the long term. Whereas I know it's not, but it's, but the the self-talk tells me it is. Yeah.
Nick Jonsson: And I think it's very important that in this busy world, we live in this online world, we spend so much time with our devices that we are very disciplined to have some what I call white space time every day. May that be some time for meditation or walk around the block or walk in the forest even better or a bike ride or something we do when we just get out and we leave the devices behind and they are on mute.
And we spend that time just to really focus on grounding ourselves. I do that in my calendar and actually put my calendar on on recurrence for the rest of my life. I block a few hours every morning. And should it be that somehow those hours are gone, then I negotiate with myself and move something up to the lunch break to go out for lunch.
And then in the evening, just to really remind myself that I need that because otherwise I know I just going to start losing myself and feeling stressed out and and not feeling good about it. And it is something special with reconnecting in the forest if we have the beauty of having a nature nearby.
William Curb: Luckily, I can go for a walk in the forest in five minutes from my house. It's great. Not forest, forest, but pretty green space. But yeah, and it is this idea that we do need this regular maintenance on ourselves. This is not something we can go, oh, I took a five minute walk beginning of this month and that's going to keep me going. It's like, no, I need to keep doing this because everything else that's going on in life is chipping away at that mental or mental health.
Nick Jonsson: Absolutely. Just like we need to sleep every day. I believe that we need to reconnect with nature every day. I don't think we are made to live in houses and in all the development that is there.
I believe that we are born to be closer to nature and I can certainly feel very different when I have skipped being in the nature even for a day or two. Yeah.
William Curb: And it's so easy to let it if you're not scheduling the time like you suggested. It's so easy to be like, well, do that. I'll get to it. And I know especially with ADHD where I have those intentions and I'm like, I'm going to do that and then I don't create the reminders that I need to do it. And then it's before I know it's a month's gone by and I've been like, I thought I was going to do that.
Nick Jonsson: Yeah, it's about that discipline, but also the accountability and being proactive about it. And I love the book I told my cabbets because it's just so clear in there, right?
About making the prompts and the accountability to set yourself up for it. Yeah, I think if we believe that, you know, if we go to bed tonight, believing that I'm going to go for a jog tomorrow. But if we haven't put the clothes next to the bed table, if there's not the alarm is there, if we don't have a friend who's waiting for us around the block, if we haven't done all those things in preparation, then we'll do everything we can to tell ourselves that the weather is bad and I'm making up with a bit of pain in my neck.
So it's not going to happen, right? So we need to be proactive, just like we would be if it was an important business pitch, we would prepare everything before and we would show up at our best. We deserve to also do that for ourselves, even for a walk in the forest. That's how serious I think we need to take it.
William Curb: Yeah, doing all those little things that are going to make the in the moment you follow through with your intentions, because in the moment, me often has different ideas of what future me should be doing. It's like, future me, they can do all those things. And it's like, we know, but I need to do it. I can't just put this off forever, even though I could.
But that's going to be that's not what I really want. Before we finish up, I just was thinking, like, what are some like habits and routines that you've personally set up that have been helping you maintain these habits to, you know, fight off lonely, let's keep addiction away. What are some of the things that you've found most important for yourself?
Nick Jonsson: Yeah, so we spoke a little bit about before, you know, having some one on one conversations with people we trust at work and at home and so on. But equally, it's important for us as human beings to find our tribe. I talk a lot about, you know, safe places also in groups and again, doubling down on our hobbies and the things we love, the courses we love, the sports clubs, the associations, the charities and the things that we are passionate about.
It's about doubling down on them and really joining clubs and society that where we can, you know, meet other people where we can be ourself and speak our language with our tribe. And I also say that, you know, whatever we suffer from or whatever challenges we have in our life, that could be our goal, that can be our strength. In my case, yes, I went through some struggle with alcohol and while that was painful and challenging, until today, I keep giving back and helping others who are going through it. So I'm coming up to 80 years sobriety and I've been supporting at least a thousand recovery meeting as a share, as a volunteer, as a sponsor to help newcomers to find their path as well.
And I keep doing that also this week and it's always in my calendar to come giving back then, getting that connection to remind myself also where I was. And I say this for anyone, it doesn't matter if, you know, someone has diabetes or cancer or whatever it has, whatever we have, then look up that tribe, look up that community and connect with them. And you as a newcomer will be welcome and you will feel that you speak the same language, that they will be there to support you and then you can be there to support others who will suffer. And you're the only newcomer the first day, the next day you're already there to help someone else.
So that is where I find a lot of the connection also, a lot of the belongingness and to do it in a way where we don't need drugs or alcohol or any other addictions. That is what I find is working. Awesome.
William Curb: Yeah. And I'm great on you for supporting all those people. I know super important work. Now, I have one more thing that is this people turning to AI for this connection for loneliness and talking with AI is being like, yeah, that I've heard people being like, yeah, this is super helpful for me. But I just kind of curious on your take on that because it seems, I don't know, whenever I've talked to chatter with computers, I've never felt any sort of connection and it's never like, yeah, I can just walk away and it won't care.
Nick Jonsson: I have also heard this from quite some people and I've seen some bad examples of it and I think good examples of it. When it's a bad example is if someone stops there, if all they do is asking AI and maybe give it some advice and then they go and do that and it doesn't work and then they isolate further and they get more depressed or whatever issue they have gets worse. When they're using it in a good way is to ask AI and brief AI and say, I'm living in this city.
I have this issue. What are the communities that I can join? What are the resources that I can join?
Are there any coaches or mentors or therapists who are specialists in ADHD in my town and area? Please give me those details. And then are there any communities?
Are there any support groups who are supporting ADHD in my city? And give me those details. And then when you get them, you can ask with AI, okay, how do I join them?
What's the contact eaters and then reaching out? And I have a good example there. I'm running also men's group for men who are going through a challenging time. Most of the men have either lost a job or going through divorce or some issues are happening in their life and they need some supporting guidance. And rather than me only working one on one with all of these, because I would run out of capacity to support. I created a group where we have group calls together, we have a group where we're helping each other. And there's also many of these groups around this mastermind, this groups, this men's group, women's group. And I would encourage everyone to reach out and join those to build that connection, to be closer to one another and ask for support and advice there and combine that with AI. So use the best of both worlds.
That's where I see it's working. And one of the latest guys, as I mentioned, he joined the men's group three months ago when he went through a very difficult time. And what happened just three weeks ago now was that his mother sadly passed away. And the fact that he had been in the men's group and opened up for a few months about his challenges and been vulnerable for the first time in his life, talking about some feelings and emotions. He was able to show up for that event by naming his feelings and going through it rather than bottling up and being in denial about it. He was there and not only for himself, but he could also show up for his sister. He even was strong enough to write a letter for the funeral, something that he said three months before. There's no way he would ever manage that. He would just have tried to hold on a happy face and acting like everything is good. Now he let it all flow out. He learned to cry by being vulnerable step by step.
William Curb: I think when people try to replace that connection, they're not going to quite find what they're looking for. Because AI isn't there yet. And there's no accountability with AI, I find.
It can be a great tool for helping me move along and get to the place I need to be, but it can't be that end location where I'm like, oh yeah, this AI is going to be my new therapist and best friend and tell me everything I want to hear. Absolutely. All right. So I was wondering if you had any final thoughts that you wanted to leave the audience with.
Nick Jonsson: Yeah, my final thoughts would be in line with our discussion. If someone has something on their mind, if there is a challenge, if there is an issue, if they know that, you know, perhaps they are drinking too much, they're spending too much time on social media, then I would encourage everyone to, you know, take ownership for that and reach out to a community and ask for help and work on it.
Then because once we take ownership and once we have that acceptance and walk into the beautiful world of recovery, then we can make wonders. So that would be my final note to everyone.
This Episode's Top Tips
Frame recovery as replacement, not deprivation. When looking to break out of unhealthy coping mechanisms, be they alcohol, social media, or some other addiction, deliberately plan what will give you that same connection without the negative costs. Having planned positive alternatives like exercise, hobbies, or group activities can make all the difference in following through with your intentions.
Watch out for the “gray zone” of addiction; you don’t need to wait until hitting rock bottom to start changing habits. If you are questioning your relationship with alcohol, social media, or other damaging habits, take the time to reflect on what is really driving those habits. Remember, you don’t have to make something worse before making it better.
When you can, volunteering in support groups or mentoring others not only helps them, but it can also reinforce your own sense of belonging and purpose.