ADHD Success with MJ

William Curb: When you hear success with ADHD, what's the first thing that comes to mind?

MJ: How did I get here?

It's like the first thing that comes to mind when I know in previous episodes you've talked about imposter syndrome and there are some days where I'm like, man, I am killing it and I'm doing really good. And I'm on the ball. And then some days I'm like, oh, I can't do anything. And other days it's like, I had this realization that, oh, I'm doing this.

And then my brain goes no, wait, stop. It's not that great. What you're doing isn't that awesome. Even though there's like clear evidence from other people that are telling you that you're doing amazing things, that's like, well, it's not that great. And so there's like, seeing success from the outside perspective of how people view, what any of us are doing is really hard for me because I still have the internal narrative that's like, oh, well, you know, success is for people who have, who have a certain thing that I don't. And yet here I am, I guess.

William Curb: Yeah. Well, and I also get the idea of like, not that people are lying to you. They like, oh, you did something awesome. But in my head I'm like, yeah, but I could have done better.

MJ: Almost feels disingenuous when somebody else says it, but it's like, no, they really mean it.

William Curb: Yeah. It's like, oh yeah, I did. But I didn't put in as much effort as I should have. So it, like, it feels weird that you're complimenting me on what I don't consider that good.

MJ: Which makes me wonder where do those, where does that story come from?

When we think that way. Of like we look one way to some people, but we look at different way to ourselves. Right? And so what do we consider success?

William Curb: Yeah, I mean, that's how I came to this was that this was a much harder question than I was expecting it to be. I was like, I should be able to just be like, yeah, you do this, you hit these metrics. You're successful. No. Okay. Uh, Shifting goalposts feel great when you're talking about basing your self worth on what you're doing.

MJ: Oh yeah, I know. I know that one all too well. Especially when it comes time to trying to take a break, it's like, oh, I'm, I'm I'm backpedaling on my success because I'm taking a break.

And then there's a story in there that like, well, the less I do and the less productive I am, then the less successful I'm being almost in the moment. I feel like. At least that that's sort of how I feel is when I take a, like a, try to take an intentional break, which has taken a long time for me to even fathom that that was an idea.

That was also for me and not just for other people who had the thing that they could take a break was yeah taking a break means doing that. It's successful for people like me who are like

chronic workaholics, I guess. So it's interesting. The different dynamics that come with thinking about what we believe for ourselves is successful.

William Curb: Yeah, well, and it's that the taking a break thing. It's like, you need to take breaks to be successful, but not in the moment, but over the longterm. And it's so hard with ADHD to get that bigger picture. Like if I do this little thing here, it's going to be part of the whole tapestry and then it'll be look great when it's all together.

MJ: Yup. Yup. I can relate to that. So what's

for you how are you viewing what you're doing now versus what you did at the beginning. When you first started and like, how is that contributing to what your maybe ideas of successes? How's that idea maybe changed for you?

Cause I'm curious to hear about that.

William Curb: Well, I think part of my issue is I never stopped to go. What would success? What would having successful podcasts look like for me? By all metrics. I have a successful podcast. Like I cannot be like, well, it's not that good. it is successful by my numbers.

Like, I can't deny that

MJ: The data there that shows.

William Curb: Yeah.

But it doesn't feel that way because it's like, oh, I could do more. I'm not, you know, a mega podcast, which was also not what I would have defined success either. Because there's only so many of those, you know, gigantic podcasts and they're not, they're mostly celebrity driven, not niche, topic driven.

MJ: Right.

William Curb: So that was never on the menu for what I was expecting or wanted.

But then

it's something that I'm going to have to sit down and really focus on is figuring out what is that metric of success that will be say, Hey, I did something successful. It's hard for me to look at the number. There's the cognitive disonance here, where I'm like, I look at the numbers, see it go. Yes, that is success.

Also. Where those numbers don't mean anything to me? Cause they're not real

MJ: wonder if we think 'cause I always had thought about success as achieving a feeling of something versus like what the actual data says. Cause there, there obviously there's there's metrics, there's communication that come with, you know, seeing what success is like with data that shows.

But I think where I have previously gotten caught up and, and maybe this is where you too is yet like maybe having a feeling of like, oh, I'm so successful. And yet you can talk to people who we see as successful as like, well, I don't really feel that way, which is, I don't know. It's something that I've been.

Fighting with, because I still have this expectation that I'm supposed to feel something when I achieve some kind of success, whether it is my definition of success or whether it is reaching another person's expectation or definition of success. But I don't inherently feel that when it happens or as it's happening.

William Curb: Yeah. I, I really resonate with that idea that it's. You're reaching for a feeling you don't know what the feeling feels like. And you're just like, I'll know when I get there except I don't know it, so it must not be there yet, right?

MJ: Yeah. Like what you said about that, we'll know it when we get there. But yeah, if we haven't, quote-unquote felt that feeling before, how are we going to know what that feels like?

And I think, I was under the belief that it's going to be this huge shift. Like, you know, when you are a kid and then you're growing up and when you're a kid you want to grow up and you're going to be like, I'm going to have it all figured out. And then you get there and you're like, I have nothing figured out.

And you think it's going to change again and like, maybe we'll have to figure it out in another 10 years or five years or whatever that, that feeling. I think it doesn't really come because we're still figuring it out. So, yeah. I wonder if it's just like this illusion that we're trying to think that we believe that we're going to feel something when we quote-unquote get there.

William Curb: Yeah. Well, and there's no finish line. I don't, there's going to be any like ceremony or graduation or anything. The piece like you got there.

Yeah. I also think it comes to some of the difficulties we have with celebrating our own wins. Like when I hit a million downloads on the podcast.

MJ: Congratulations.

William Curb: Thank you. Big milestone. I texted my friend. Hey, passed a million downloads that consisted of everything did.

MJ: So, how are you going to celebrate Will? How are you going to celebrate when a hundred episodes ?

William Curb: By putting out a cool now it's probably going to be a series of episodes on success.

that's as far as I got,

MJ: that's fair.

William Curb: I was watching Parks and Rec, a few months back. And there was a scene with Leslie Knope doing her thing. And she's like had this victory over Councilman Jam and was like, okay, now let's get to work. And so then Ann's like, wait, aren't you going to celebrate? And Leslie, like I just said, let's get to work. Isn't that enough?

MJ: I remember that episode, I feel like that's, oh, you like that too? Or you like, just like, okay, I did it of the list. Let's just, let's go.

William Curb: Yeah. It's like the work, it's the celebration. Right?

MJ: I wonder if we're searching for that feeling because. Um, you know, when you, when you graduate from high school and you get prom, you get this whole big celebration. And that's like a big thing that we were working up to. And so maybe a part of like that story is when we reach success or when we've reached that thing that we're looking for that same - I don't want to say recognition. I feel like that's the wrong word, but just like a grand way to celebrate, which is why we're like, are we really successful or are we really doing what we set out to do? Like we're not celebrating it and celebrating is hard in my opinion.

William Curb: Well, and especially, it's like, okay, what do we do for celebrations? And I've done an entire episode about this, and it's still something that I struggle with, you know, but. It's like, okay. I could have a party can have cake, but I don't, I don't know a good definition of what a celebration is.

MJ: I don't either.

Any listeners got any bright ideas?

William Curb: Yeah. I think I'll need to do follow up celebrating your wins. List of actual things that are celebrations.

MJ: Hmm. I think that's going to be tough only because I'm like, I don't know the first thing to, to think about for that either.

William Curb: Yeah. Well it's, I mean, this is why I was like grappling with this question.

Okay. What's success with ADHD. I don't know because I don't have that feeling. But I know it should be there. And so I think some of that is like needing to just reframe what I'm looking for

MJ: and that feeling like, should it really be there?

William Curb: Yeah. Is it really a feeling or is it, Hey, I hit that goal I was trying to go for, or, I mean, part of the issue with this is that I didn't feel like I was. Like it was this big thing I did because it was just one foot after the other one episode, another episode. And it was just kind of inevitable that I'd eventually get to a hundred, but that doesn't mean that that's just because something is inevitable. Well, it's not inevitable because I had to put in work every step of the way. It was just a lot of small steps along the way. And so then. Because they're all small steps. I'm like, well, it wasn't a big deal

MJ: maybe it's like not the thing, not like the, the actual numbers that make us feel like there's success. It's, it's being able to maybe part of our success is being able to pass off some of the work or delegate, or to allow ourselves to give us a break when we are like having a bit of a hard time with things, cause I think when we, when we start something it's always a struggle.

And like you said, it's, it's one foot after the other. It's one foot after the other. it's kind of like when you're hiking a mountain and you don't really realize how high you get until you actually reach the top and then go to look down and it's like, oh, I got that far. Wow. that might be a way of looking at it.

Cause you've taken all of these little steps and I remember episode one and then episode two and then episode three. And then now here you are, you're celebrating a hundred episodes and 100, a hundred and something. However, whenever this one comes out it was one step after the other. And there, there wasn't a grand feeling that that came with.

But looking back, you're like, wow, how did I get this many under my belt?

William Curb: But I also think there's this idea that success involves me getting all my shit together. Be an organized, perfectly organized everywhere in my life. That's success. Right. When you know, I get that to do list. Like I'll get the right system and I'll be perfectly able to execute all of the things I want to do.

And somehow just not have executive dysfunction anymore because I'll have put together the perfect system. This seems like a bad strategy when I'm saying that out loud. Cause I don't think that works that way.

MJ: I you you've said before that there is no perfect system and we say it on the Q&A that there's like, there's no perfect app.

There's no perfect this or that. That's gonna like nothing short of a cure really. Is this like,

William Curb: yeah.

It's like, I don't even know what that would look like.

MJ: The leading up to this many episodes and having ADHD and being consistent, like, what would you say is the one thing that contributed to the consistency leading up to the successful podcasts that you have now?

William Curb: Just a lot of anxiety

MJ: that your fuel?

William Curb: Yeah. Just keep tossing logs under that. I'm going to be late. I'm going to be late. I'm going to be late.

MJ: So how, how did you use your anxiety to drive, getting to this point? Because anxiety at any point could, could make you just fall off?

William Curb: Well, there have been several times I have fallen off.

Like, I think that's part of why I don't feel successful is because, oh, since June, I've put out like 16 new episodes.

MJ: Did you miss any? Can't remember.

William Curb: I missed a few. I did a lot. I mean, so let's be fair. I got COVID during that time, did not produce any new episodes for four weeks that I had that. so that may have been thrown up a lot of repeats. Nobody has complained about that. And then I missed a couple in December, just like complete, like I'm kids.

I can't, I can't even get one of these episodes up, but I mean, and stepping back, I can see the success a lot more because if I went, I talked to anyone else about their podcasts, where they hit a hundred episodes.

I'd be like, holy shit. That's a lot good job. And I'm like, why don't I say that to myself?

MJ: So success then with ADHD, because you have an ADHD podcast, you have ADHD.

It's interesting because I do grow up with that question too. Like, what is success with ADHD? I feel like we don't have the same luxury of not having the, rejections and the nos. Cause what is it like when you, if you have ADHD diagnosed or not, like when you're a kid you get like 50% or 80% more nos and rejection than you do from neuro-typical kids and what they get. I just wonder if that just sort of creates this like disbelief that we can be successful or that we are, or have reached a point of success.

William Curb: I think this really leads to the bigger thing. It's not about reaching a point. It's about reframing where you are, because you're not going to cross a finish line to success. There's no success finish line that you could ever cross because that's, there's, you know, the balance of like, okay, I've have all like, you know, when we do the life.

We'll or whatever we're, you know, with all the life, different life domains, you can't focus on all of them at once, but you do have to have a balance because you can, it's easy to be like just going to do the podcast and family doesn't matter, but that wouldn't really be success either.

MJ: It would be a strong lack of balanced. There would definitely have to be a counterbalance applied to that.

William Curb: Yeah, balance and counterbalance. So yeah, I think it's about reframing. Success with ADHD, it's not that different. It's just that we have more trouble seeing it because we want, there to be someone to tell us good job. We need that external. Like, I don't know if we don't need it's like we need it. I was like, we need that external validation, except we don't believe it when we get it. So yeah,

MJ: just going to say, like, we want it, but when we hear it, it's like, no, that's not true.

Oh, that's not right.

William Curb: Don't try to build me up. I know. You're just going to try and tear me down later,

MJ: and that is such a hard reframe. And I like what you said about the finish line, because if there really was a finish line at the end of success, then there really wouldn't be anything left to grow from.

William Curb: Yeah.

MJ: If say success was a hundred episodes and you stop there, then does that still would that still be considered successful or would that be considered just stopping for the sake of stopping? Cause we reached some finish line. I personally don't think so. Like just be no, no, There's no finish line really to quote-unquote success.

So how well are you change your definition of success Will? That be interesting to hear what you say now versus another a hundred episodes from now?

William Curb: Yeah. So in the moment, what would I have used access to has with the reframe as. Not doing the best I can do, because I know I can always do better, but meeting myself where I'm at in terms of like, yeah, not looking back with rose colored glasses and being like, I should have put up more episodes because well, Brendan was here living through a global pandemic. Oh

MJ: Yeah. Living for a global pandemic ladies and gentlemen.

William Curb: This is a global trauma event, which makes it easy to, for me to be like, I should've just done more, but yeah. Do the reframe of, Hey, I'm doing the best I can every day. And. You know, as like we did our introductions like I'm going to be doing better today than I was yesterday and going to be doing better tomorrow than I was today.

I think that's just, that should be the goal for success doing better tomorrow.

MJ: That's better than yesterday. Not as good as tomorrow. Quoted that from, from house actually, like I kinda liked that at that, uh, and tomorrow might not be better. It might be like a crappy day and then we can still apply that

William Curb: to just start over, then tomorrow's going to be better.

MJ: And I mean, really Will when you think about it and you are a hundred episodes ahead of the people who have been thinking about it and haven't started.

You're a hundred episodes in with a hundred episodes, more knowledge than you were at episode one.

William Curb: So yeah, I think the reframe there that, yeah, doing better tomorrow and not being, not judgemental of how I did the day before, or even the day of, as Eric says, you know, if beating yourself up work. That's what he would be teaching.

MJ: Clearly. It doesn't, it doesn't make us feel good either. Not saying that we're chasing that feel good feeling, but if we can at least avoid or mitigate some of the crappy feelings that already come up at certain points in our lives, that's probably the more ideal thing to do then to just tell ourselves that we are not doing good. even though we might feel that way sometimes.

William Curb: Yeah. Because it's also okay. To not feel good. It's okay to have bad days, absolutely bad months. You can have a bad month.

MJ: I mean, we're living through a global pandemic. We're doing it

William Curb: It's been a bad couple of years.

MJ: I don't want to still pushing through, I would call that a success. It's continuing to push through, even though it's been so hard.

William Curb: Yeah. Just be like, Hey, I have to reframe how this is going to work. I'm just going to cause. There's not going to be the same as what I envisioned and that's okay.

MJ: What would you say is like one thing doing this many episodes?

Like what's your most valuable lesson or your most valuable takeaway from the last hundred episodes?

William Curb: One of the things that they wrote about early is doing things that work for your brain. And continuously tweaking, that idea has been really important for me being like, this is a hard thing to adopt because there are so many things that say, this is the way you're supposed to do things. And yet You know, the shoulds and supposed tos, and you know what ifs.

No. What, what actually works for me? Not what is the way that, what does, wait, not that a neuro-typical would do it now. What is the way that I would do it? That works best for me.

MJ: Taking the ingredients of everything that you've seen in making your own recipe. And when you don't like the recipe, you change up the ingredients to make a new recipe.