This week I’m talking with Jamie Cutino, a licensed Occupational Therapist, TEDx Speaker, ADHD Coach and a fervent advocate for the ADHD community. In today's episode, Jamie shares her insightful and empowering journey from discovering their ADHD diagnosis to utilizing skills she learned as an occupational therapist to enhance daily life. Jamie has her own podcast, Outsmart ADHD, where she and her guests go over the latest research, share stories and look to provide you with actionable advice.
In our conversation today we talk about what occupational therapy is and how it can help with ADHD management, how sensory issues can impact our ADHD and get into some of the tips and strategies that can help with these issues. And since Jamie is also a podcaster we get into some stuff about the podcast and things I’m looking to improve.
William Curb: Well, when did you get your diagnosis and how did the process of you getting there happen?
Jamie Cutino: So getting the diagnosis and knowing I had ADHD happened at two very different times. I was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, did not know it. I don't remember having a conversation with my mom about it because she was my primary caregiver. And I was in my graduate program and I had turned in yet another rough draft as my final copy because, you know, I had to save 15,000 times, uploaded the wrong thing. And I got to a point where I was really worried of like, oh my god, like what the hell is going on?
How am I going to get through my occupational therapy degree? And then I was talking to my therapist and I'm like, hey, I don't know, I've been doing some research ADHD just seems like if this and she was like, oh, well, you were diagnosed as a kid, do you not remember? And this is like, of course, I don't remember. And my mom had passed away when I was 18. So it's not like I had her to talk to about it. So I was figuring this out as an adult on my own. So that's when I found out that I have ADHD. And that's what cued the hyper focus of, okay, I know what's going on now. What the hell do I do about it?
William Curb: Yeah, I know when I got my diagnosis in my 20s, but I didn't jump into what I should do about it for like another eight years. And then it was like, Oh, there's stuff I can do about this. This is more than what I originally thought.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah, like this isn't a death sentence. There are things.
William Curb: Yeah. And it's like, Oh, I can do something.
Jamie Cutino: Right.
William Curb: I'm not stuck.
Jamie Cutino: Yes.
William Curb: And I definitely resonate also with that like feeling you were describing of like, why is this so much harder for me?
Jamie Cutino: I won't forget being in a job one time and talking to a coworker and being like, do you just feel like life is overwhelming at the time I was a personal trainer? And she was like, you know, when life gets overwhelming, I just have a really good workout and like everything works out. And that has gotten me through the worst parts of my life. I'm like, ever just feel like that's not enough, though. And she's like, not really, I'm like, okay, that's fine. I'll just be over here in the corner then trying to figure out my life. But yeah, had no idea why such simple, easy air quote things were so hard.
William Curb: And it's over and over. And you're like, Oh, there's gotta be it's often not it's gotta be something it's more often something's wrong with me. And I've got to just work harder.
Jamie Cutino: Right, right. You just internalize all of it. And of course, internalize ableism, right? Because everyone's telling you like, you know, if you just try harder, if you just make a list is all going to work out. And it's just like, listen, I have notebooks of lists, and I've lost the notebook. So I'm going to need you to give me something else that works.
William Curb: God did the horror of losing the notebook with the list. Just like, I'm never going to remember what was in there. Something's gone forever now. So one of the things you mentioned earlier was this occupational therapy, which is a really interesting thing for treating ADHD that I don't know that much about. But I'd love to hear a little bit more about how occupational therapy and ADHD intersect.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah. So occupational therapy, the field is so broad, we treat newborns through people that are in their last stages of life. So the things that we can do is OTs is very broad. But ADHD, specifically, things that we work on are, you know, we have an underdeveloped frontal lobe, which affects our executive functioning, which what do you need executive functioning for, literally every single thing in your daily life, because every single thing in your daily life has multiple steps, which we are so in tune to as ADHD'ers. When you go and do your laundry, it's not just doing the laundry, it's okay, I need to find all the laundry, I need to put it into the basket, I need to take it downstairs.
I need to figure out if there's still clothes in the washer that I never actually got to the dryer, you know, everything is multiple steps. So OTs really help with executive functioning, transitioning from one task to another, actually starting a task, finishing a task, all of those executive functioning pieces, how to put dopamine into the task so that you actually do it, because we are dopamine seeking humans. And if it's boring, we're just simply not going to do it. But also a big part is the sensory piece, because we are overstimulated in some areas, under stimulated in another. And I've actually found that first looking at the, are my sensory needs being met really contributes to productivity.
William Curb: Absolutely, bad sensory experience can just make everything so especially like noise gets me where I'm like,
Jamie Cutino: oh my gosh
William Curb: you know, if I'm wearing headphones while cooking and I don't hear like the oven fan and stuff, I'm like, oh, this is way easier.
Jamie Cutino: Yes. Do you also have a really good pair of like noise canceling headphones?
William Curb: Yeah.
Jamie Cutino: Okay. Yeah, I cannot live my life without them. I wish I could go back in time, you know, almost 30 years and have them. But I've had them now for, I don't know, maybe five years and my gosh, incredible transformative experience of having noise canceling headphones for daily life.
William Curb: Yeah, the other one for me is I have to have really well lit rooms. I know a lot of people like the more like dim lights for the working but if like, if I'm not, I don't have enough light in the room, I'm just like, I don't know, it's just it's hard for me to get worked on.
Jamie Cutino: Do you like a specific kind of like, are you okay with just the really bright white like lights that you see in like lit up offices and stuff? I can't remember the exact name of them, but are you okay with like that type of light or does it have to be a more yellowish toned lamp? Do you just need it bright or does it have to be a certain kind of light? I'm super curious.
William Curb: So like the fluorescent lights that they have in offices?
Jamie Cutino: Yes, the floor. Yes, that's the word I was looking for.
William Curb: No, those are awful.
Jamie Cutino: Right
William Curb: And they have that buzz that like I associate with like bad exams. But yeah, I do like the warmer tones of light, but being able to like have it bright. So
Jamie Cutino: yeah, that makes complete sense.
William Curb: Which is funny, my wife likes rooms much dimmer and I'll like come in, I'm doing I can't see anything in here.
Jamie Cutino: Right, it's funny because I do like things well lit, but there's also a point in time where I'm just like, okay, I need everything in this house dark for like two hours before I go to bed, which my husband is not neurodivergent in the same way as me. So he likes the lights to stay on. I'm just like, can we just shut all these damn lights off please? Because I need to shut my eye or like have lower stimulation so that I can actually fall asleep. Because it's you know, it's already harder for us to fall asleep at a decent time having ADHD.
William Curb: When I got dimmable lights, I was like, oh, this is great. We can dim have nice dim evening and then I can pop them up the day when I want to work.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah. And those are some of the things that we is OTs that we do too. It's how can we modify the environment to fit those sensory needs? I mean, and it can be as simple as having dimmable lights. It can be something as simple as what clothes are you wearing right now? And is the feeling of your tag keeping you from actually doing your homework, doing your work task or whatnot. It could be something like like you had mentioned, the sounds can be very overstimulating needing noise canceling headphones or needing something on that stimulating such as the podcast or music so that you can actually, you know, get the dishes done or work on a focus task.
That is some ideas of what we can do for the sensory component. But the best way I can explain OT is really when you when you break it down, it's okay, you have a person and they have this goal. What is the barrier that's keeping them from that goal? And what's the creative solution to get there is really what it comes down to. It's an art and a science.
William Curb: Yeah, sounds like it cause everyone's so personalized in how their ADHD or other conditions affect them.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah, absolutely. And OT is seen more as, you know, we talked about like, you know, a lot of kids will go to OT or some kids will go to OT. And it's seen as something that, you know, if you're going to an OT for ADHD, you must be a kid. But ADHD, as we know, is a neurodevelopmental disorder. It doesn't go away. And if you didn't learn those skills and strategies as a kid, you're going to need that support as an adult, where it can be really, really beneficial to see an OT even as an adult.
William Curb: Yeah, some of the things I've seen with kids for OT is stuff like teaching like frustration tolerance and learning how to do multiple steps in a thing. I'm like, that might be good for some of that stuff to like get better at for myself.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah, absolutely. It's not like we grow out of it, so.
William Curb: Yeah, yeah, I'm like thinking like the multiple steps, like if I'm like driving somewhere with my wife and she'll like read some directions, I'm like, you got to just go one, maybe two directions. After that, I'm going to either zone out on what you're saying and forget the first step or just completely mix them together.
Jamie Cutino: You can't give me more than one step when we're driving. I have my eyes will glaze over and just directions in general. I'm never going to remember them. I can drive to the same place 37 times, but just, you know, use my ways app to get there. And I will not be able to describe to you how to get there. My brain's kind of on autopilot, but that's another side thing.
William Curb: Just an entire episode on driving an ADHD.
Jamie Cutino: Right.
William Curb: The nightmare of over simulation.
Jamie Cutino: Right. No kidding. What I think people don't realize is that it's also the overachieving ADHD years that maybe have like more degrees than a thermometer and have done all these really cool things. Just because they've accomplished all those things does not mean that they don't need support as well. As ADHD years, we can become very hyper fixated on what we love to do. I know for myself building this business, as you know, it takes a lot of effort to get something like this off of the ground. It's all consuming.
You're constantly thinking about it. But it got to the point where I was neglecting my marriage in pursuit of this goal, which is funny because I wanted to build the business to retire him because I didn't want him to have to work so hard. And in the midst of it, I'm completely neglecting it. So it's not just the people that are having a hard time getting out of bed that need that support. It's also the high achieving burnt out people pleasing imposter having ADHD years to.
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. Cause it does feel like, oh, if I'm so successful here, I should be successful here, but that's not how skills transfer.
Jamie Cutino: No, it's funny because you know, I've done two TED talks, I have a master's degree, but I have no idea where the hell I put my phone most of the time. We have strengths and we have weaknesses. And I think the more that we advocate for, listen, I can be very high achieving and need support. I think there needs to be more awareness around that.
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. Because it's not a linear line. There's go all over the place and what we need because there's like, yeah, these are tests I'm really good at, but keeping my desk organized is not one of them.
Jamie Cutino: Right, right. Exactly. And something as small as having a hard time keeping your desk organized can keep you from, you know, writing in the book that you really want to write. It can keep you from your big goals. These little things can keep you from these big goals that you have in your heart too. So the little things sometimes aren't even little things. They're the big things.
William Curb: Oh, absolutely. Cause it is a culmination of all the things that we want to do. It's like, if I want to get my ADHD management under control, I can't do one thing and expect it to be managed.
Jamie Cutino: Oh gosh, no, you need like, you need a toolbox of tools and depending on the day, depending on your energy, depending on the spoons you have, depending on your accessibility to whatever, whatever you have on schedule that day, you might need different tools. I couldn't agree more.
William Curb: Yeah, I absolutely needed different tools today when my son got me up at four to say he needed to go back to sleep and I'm like,
Jamie Cutino: Oh, no.
William Curb: Yeah, so it's been a long day so far, but it's like, you know, having the things like, Oh, I know how to do this. I know how to make sure that when I'm going to go and have, you know, this podcast later, I can be ready for that given that I actually remember to show up at the right time this time, which was slightly off for what I had put in my head, but counted as a win since it saw my error before it happened.
Jamie Cutino: But Will, you know, I really appreciate your transparency because you have a kick ass podcast. I mean, if it's not the top, it's one of the top ADHD podcasts, and you're over here being like, Oh, wait, I had the time screwed up. I can't tell you how cool that is as someone who aspires to have a really prominent podcast one day for you to be so successful and be like, Oh, shit. You know, sometimes I struggle with things too. Obviously, I know that we struggle, but it's really cool to see someone of your caliber that's just like, so transparent about it.
William Curb: Thank you. But also, I think it is like the easiest things for me to talk about are what my struggles actually are.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah.
William Curb: Because most of the time this hot podcast is fairly self serving where I'm like, How do I fix this issue? And I think that is a like key to why people like the podcast too is that it's looking at the problem solving techniques behind it. Because what I've always found with ADHD management, we're all so unique with what our problems are. Because my original concept of the show was like, Oh, I'll give people tools to use. And I'm like, that's not what works. Like everyone has different needs. And if I give someone a tool, it's not going to slide into their life nicely. We need to figure out the strategy behind the tool and why that works.
Jamie Cutino: Right. Absolutely. You can't hand someone a planner and say, Okay, have a field day. Everything is fixed.
William Curb: I had fun a while back with like some bad ADHD advice stuff. And I was like, Yeah, there's so much like all the advice isn't bad on its own. It's just that it doesn't work when you don't address the context behind it.
Jamie Cutino: Absolutely. Wish I'd I think why we get so damn frustrated with neurotypicals when they give advice because and I'm not saying it's their fault. If there's any neurotypicals listening, I'm not targeting you, my friend, but they don't understand why we're struggling and how our brain works so fundamentally differently.
William Curb: Yeah. Because it's like, Oh, would a planner help? Probably. If I'm not doing any planning, a planner probably would help. I have trouble filling out the planner.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah. Where did I put the planner? How detailed am I going to be with this planner? This planner does not put the actual zoom link for the podcast, because I need that to be really readily accessible to. So, you know, F your planner! Not working.
William Curb: I mean, like, yeah, I live by my Google calendar. It's like, Oh, if it's not in there.
Jamie Cutino: Oh, absolutely.
William Curb: It's not happened. It's got to have all the notifications that be like, Hey, if you have this in 30 minutes, you have this today, like I just got summons for jury duty. And I'm like...
Jamie Cutino: Oh, my condolences. I'm so sorry. I haven't had the pleasure of doing that yet.
William Curb: Yeah. This might be the first time that it actually works out that I can go. And I was like, Okay, I'm going to put in my calendar, but put a notification in that I have it 10 days before, four days before and the day before.
Jamie Cutino: That is brilliant. Now, what is your, do you have like set alarms that you have for that day? Because mine for the day are 60 minutes prior, 30 minutes prior, and then 10 minutes prior to make sure I have like the mental bandwidth to transition. Do you have it for the day as well? Or do you more so have, you know, the days prior?
William Curb: For this one, I just have the days prior a lot of other like if I have a important event, I will do the like, I have my thing to automatically set to always give me a 30 minute one. And then depending what I need to make sure that I need to do to have the bandwidth to get there, have those things into and you know, also have like the, Oh, if I'm going to be needing to travel, okay, when do I need to actually leave? Not when do I need to be there? Because...
Jamie Cutino: Right, right. Two very different things.
William Curb: Yeah. And like adding that time between like the way he says it takes 30 minutes to get there, but I still need to get in my car and I need to then find a parking spot and park and I need to walk into the building.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah. My understanding is that neurotypical brains don't have to go through that process to know how to be there on time. And I joked about this with some of my clients. It's like, when you realize how much simpler or easier some of these tasks are for them, their accomplishments just seem so unimpressive. Is that a bad thing to say? I'm just like, you should be able to do so many more things with a brain that literally releases dopamine when you start thinking about the thing you want to do.
William Curb: I like my friend, Brendan Mahan of the ADHD Essentials podcast has the saying that ADHD is life on hard mode.
Jamie Cutino: Oh wow. Yeah. Ain't that the damn truth? Somebody's gonna make a t-shirt that says that because it's the truth.
William Curb: Yeah. One of the things I like to try to think about for how approaching things is like, oh, I'm on the hard mode, but how can I make this not hard mode? How can I like find the solution that works with my brain so that this works?
Jamie Cutino: Right. You don't have to really irks me, Will. It's when people have this misconception that ADHD medication suddenly makes life easier than it is for like a neurotypical when really it's like handing somebody crutches when they have a broken leg just so they can hobble around in a way that they're able to get around.
William Curb: Well, I mean, I remember when I first got on medication, I didn't use any other strategies. And I was like, man, I am fantastic at making comments on Reddit now.
Jamie Cutino: It's the truth. Because just because you have the ability to focus doesn't mean you are suddenly able to do the things that you never wanted to do before.
William Curb: Yeah. Like, oh, I have to do so many other things like medication rate intervention for helping with ADHD. But without the other strategies, it doesn't help that much.
Jamie Cutino: No, no. I mean, with strategies, you're going to feel like a super human versus, you know, before you had any support or medication at all. I'm talking about my own experiences. But yeah, medication alone is not going to be a cure all.
William Curb: Yeah. That's like a big key to like actually doing your management. But the thing that's with medications, well, it's like it also makes implementing those strategies so much easier.
Jamie Cutino: So much easier. I love Jessica McCabe. I think she calls it like a focus potion. Because like you said, like you're suddenly so much better at commenting on Reddit. But it does make the executive functioning tasks so much easier. And I will say for myself, even though, you know, ADHD is a stimulant medication, I find myself not getting overstimulated as much when I'm on the medication. Have you noticed that, Will?
William Curb: I'm trying to recall times that I've been overstimulated and comparing. And I'm like, it feels like, yeah, more often it's when I'm unmedicated that I have that overstimulation.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah. And I don't know, maybe it's because we're able to focus on the tasks that we're trying to do easier and maybe able to tune out, you know, all the other stimuli, the sounds and stuff. But yeah, the days that I don't take my medication definitely stimulated more. And I haven't gone down the rabbit hole to understand that more. Why? But I'm sure I will.
William Curb: I mean, the way I try to think about it is that with ADHD, we know the name is terribly misleading. Because it's, you know,
Jamie Cutino: Absolutely.
William Curb: About how we lack the ability to focus our attention. And that's what gives us this problem with stimulation is that I can't not pay attention to the person over there talking and then also that light there is blinking weird. And so I'm noticing all those things. And so I think with the medication, I can then control my focus better on the things that I want to do and kind of silence that extra stimulus.
Jamie Cutino: Yes. Yes. That makes perfect sense. And that's exactly how I feel too.
William Curb: Yeah. And so I think that's a big way that we have to think about ADHD is like, how do I make control my focus? And it sounds a lot like this is kind of what you would be doing in OT is like, Hey, how do I control this focus piece?
Jamie Cutino: Yeah, I mean, it's really okay. What's your goal? I mean, for a business owner, their goal might be say recording a podcast. Okay, what is keeping you from recording the podcast? Is it that your microphone is downstairs and the idea of going downstairs and getting the microphone coming back up and setting it up feels overwhelming? Do you just need to have it set up all the time?
Is it that your room is either too lit, not lit enough? Is it that you are putting these ridiculous expectations of, okay, I need to look like a model from America's Next Top Model every time that I record because I want to use this footage as short form reels? Are you creating inaccessible experience just based off of perfectionism and wanting to be that overachiever?
William Curb: Yeah, just, you know, reconnecting us to this concept of what you actually do in OT because I'm sure that's also something like we talked about some of the stuff earlier, but I feel like we could dive in a little bit more about specifics that people might see in OT so that they could understand if it is the right approach for them.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah, absolutely. Big on the sensory piece, big on when people are struggling with being productive, a lot of times they think that they need productivity tools when they really need to just create a more accessible space or process and have their sensory needs met. A lot of times, especially because I work exclusively with women with ADHD, a lot of times it's a lot of people pleasing behaviors, which not having very good boundaries around your time and energy.
How are you going to be able to do those really cool big things that you want to do when you are exhausted and feel like you need to answer the phone every single time your friend Tiffany calls crying because Josh broke her heart again when you saw it coming 3000 miles away and understanding that you're not a terrible person for having boundaries around your time and energy, which will allow you to do the things that you need to do to survive, let alone thrive in daily life. So a lot of it actually is overcoming that people pleasing and also dealing with rejection sensitivity, especially for, you know, fellow high achieving people where they might want to be an aspiring business owner.
But they're having a hard time creating a social media post because God forbid, what are people going to think about you? I don't know about you, Will, but that's something that I really struggled with in the beginning. I actually sought out a business coach because I wanted to know how can I market myself without using social media. I was terrified. A couple years later, I've done a couple TED Talks, so clearly I got the fuck over myself. But that was very hard in the beginning. I'm curious, did you struggle with that with worrying about what people would think about you in the beginning?
William Curb: I mean, in the beginning, no, I mean, still.
Jamie Cutino: Right.
William Curb: Because yeah, I deal a lot with the people pleasing to where I'm just I was actually thinking about this earlier today with being like, man, it's weird where I have so much trouble being like if I have the time to do something that signals in my brain that I should be doing it, like if I have that space open on my calendar, it doesn't really matter if I'm not crazy about doing it, or if I have other stuff going on later and I'm like, it's going to make that day crazy. I could physically do that, so I should. I'm occasionally on Twitter as my social media, because partially, I don't see a huge benefit to social media at this point. Like anytime I've had a thing go viral somewhere else in my sphere of social media, do I see that translating to stuff in the podcast? Usually not. So.
Jamie Cutino: This is good to know, because you know, I'm only a couple of years out. How long have you had your business Will?
William Curb: I started the podcast in 2019 so.
Jamie Cutino: Okay, you've become one of the biggest podcasts as fan girl over here. Can I ask, is it just your guess really spreading the word of your podcast that has made it grow so much? And obviously, it's a bad ass podcast. But is that how you have found your audience?
William Curb: Mostly it's been word of mouth. And then also getting the weird thing with where once you start growing, you're like on top of charts, then you start getting the lion's shares of clicks. People go, oh, that's the top thing there. I want to go to that.
Jamie Cutino: That makes sense.
William Curb: So I started in 2019. And then April 2020, we have pandemic, I saw numbers drop. But after people got their groove back, people really embraced podcasts. And so it really grew right then. And at that point, I wasn't having any guests on. So it's all like word of mouth and being in the right place at the right time.
Jamie Cutino: And just being a bad ass person, like you're being very humble right now because people don't share about a crappy podcast.
William Curb: Thank you. But yeah, it's the numbers are weird when I like look at them, like that's a lot of people. But yeah, there's still that like worry about making sure that the product I put out is good. You know, I've had bad episodes that I put out and been like, oh, I should take these down when some of them I have others I have not. Really depending on like there was one that I was like, oh, this is beyond what I'm okay having on the podcast at this point.
Jamie Cutino: Was it a guest that said something that you just didn't align with your values? Was it a solo podcast? Can I ask that? Is that too invasive? My autism is showing.
William Curb: It was yeah, it was it was a guest that overstated some studies and stuff. And then looking into some of their other things as really don't align with what I believe here. And I'm kind of regretting that I initially put this up. I was a little shaky about it first. And it's like, ah, it'll be fine. And then I'm like, oh, this was not fine.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah. Now, as an incredibly busy ADHD business owner, how much of a vetting process do you do with your guests? Because I can imagine that you are pitched by a lot of people and sifting through that. Is that an overwhelming experience?
William Curb: Yes. In fact, I have just hired a assistant to help with that.
Jamie Cutino: Congratulations.
William Curb: Thank you. Yeah, because I was like, I was like, oh, yeah, if I had vetted this other guy, it would not have happened. Or better vetted like because I did do like some molecular like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. You know, they're not too far out there. And then, oh, I was wrong. So I've been doing a lot more recently. But there have been definitely like before like things like, oh, there's this doctor that says you can cure ADHD with progesterone. Let's look him up. Oh, he was disbarred. He's not actually a doctor anymore. Let's not have him.
Jamie Cutino: Oh, my gosh. Oh, I'll keep my thoughts to myself. That's wild. That's a wild claim.
William Curb: And then like, you know, get lots of like, cure your ADHD through diet. And I'm like, well, you can't cure ADHD. So let's dial this one back.
Jamie Cutino: Oh, my gosh. If I had a dollar for every single bot or person, I've been told they're bots that have gotten into my Facebook group and have done the same copy and paste message of if you take these mushrooms, it's going to, you know, cure every mental illness you've ever had. I would probably have all my student loans paid off at this point.
William Curb: Yeah.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah.
William Curb: So but yeah, so it is a, you know, being more in depth, you know, I've had some other podcasts pitched me recently and I was like, okay, let's listen to through some episodes. Let's see what they're actually about so I can be confident when I reply.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah, I really respect that too, because it's not just seeing, okay, what is your reach? How is this going to, you know, help me grow my audience? You really want to be particular about what you're putting out because, I mean, you don't have a podcast like this just because you're trying to make money. You have to be really passionate to continue with it, you know, as you have six years later.
I was recently pitched and I was looking at some of the bullet points, you know, their assistant, their person put and one of the things was about the troubles of treating, you know, ADHD with medication. I'm just like, Hey, I want to know if your person is very against ADHD medication. If so, it's not going to be on my podcast because I'm not about to spread information like that when there's already so much stigma around ADHD medication, even though the research shows when you are under a physician's care and have ADHD, very low to no prevalence of addictions.
William Curb: When properly taken ADHD medication is very effective and very safe. But like there's so many things are itch like, Hey, we want to do this parents talk thing. How do you feel about medication? And I'm like, Oh, I'm pro medication, like, Oh, well, that's not great. I'm like, Why are you not pro medication? There's no good information.
Jamie Cutino: It's wild because, you know, during the pandemic and the understanding of ADHD has grown, but it is still just nowhere where it needs to be. I can go on my soapbox all damn day long about medication. I won't, but I feel very strongly about it. I mean, it's no different than can you imagine just keeping insulin from someone with that has diabetes because they're being a stigma around insulin. It's just crazy when you think of it.
William Curb: Yeah, we want to be able to just function normal, especially with kids. There's like some evidence that treating people with medication as children helps rewire their brain so that their executive functions better form and then they can...
Jamie Cutino: Shut the front door.
William Curb: Because their brain is still developing, they're developing those pathways that the medication is helping.
Jamie Cutino: Oh my gosh, this is mind blowing and so exciting. And now I'm going to go down a rabbit hole of looking at that research too. How badass is that? That's really cool to know though.
William Curb: Yeah, and I will say that if I remember correctly, that was just like preliminary research, so that is still something that's not proven yet. But it is like an idea that like, hey, there is some merit to this, so it deserves that follow up because again, we don't see this bad outcomes from long-term medication use. And when we do see side effects, I developed a much higher heart rate than I wanted.
My Apple Watch kept dingin' me, being like, hey, you're standing and not doing anything and your heart rate's jacked. And I was like, not great. Let's talk to my doctor and we could like, lord my dosage. Things got back into things. We played some things and I was like, okay, we just adjusted what I had so that it worked with my current life situation.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah, I mean, I noticed recently that when, I mean, even the instant release versus extended release or the instant release, I don't know, I feel a little bit off. My psychiatrist described it as like a washing machine feeling in your head almost, but the extended release, good to go. Like you had said, it might just be a dosage. It could be a different type of ADHD med that works for you, but this idea that ADHD meds are bad, I'm just, I'm gonna be over here advocating till the day I die that they're not.
William Curb: Yeah, I think it's really important that we let people use the tools that are gonna help them the most.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah, it is super okay to outsource the things that are very challenging for you or that don't bring you joy or that keep you from doing what you really want to do. I can tell that you love connecting with people, but it sounds like editing the podcast and putting it together maybe took some executive functioning away from you that you could be putting better towards other things. So I also think it's really cool that you're had openly talked about, yeah, I have an assistant actually to help me with this vetting process.
William Curb: Yeah, I mean, I remember seeing something a while ago about this comedian who is becoming a mother and people are like, oh, how do you do it all? And she's like, oh, I have like an assistant, I have a nanny and I have this and she's like, that is how I do it all because I don't.
Jamie Cutino: Yes, is her name Amy?
William Curb: I wantto say Amy Wong?
Jamie Cutino: Yes, yes, her. She's hilarious. I adore her. And I loved that. I love that also because the feminist in me was like, hell yeah, like show we can't do everything all the time. But yeah, it's true, we can't do everything. I can't remember how many months ago was it I got an assistant and holy crap life changer to not have to figure out the entire back end of my business. And oh gosh, like I swear I have I don't actually have it, but I feel like I have like PTSD just thinking about when I did all of that myself. And having that support just a freaking game changer.
William Curb: Also, the assistant gave me a whole new appreciation of the idea of mental load. And like, I'm being like, oh, I have to assign them all these tasks, and I have to figure out what those tasks are. And that's a huge task in itself.
Jamie Cutino: It is. And people also don't talk about that because people who maybe haven't had an employer contractor before will think, okay, if I have somebody, it's going to solve all my issues. But the truth of it is, there's so much executive function that goes into that initial like handing off process, where in the beginning, it's actually more work to do that versus doing it yourself. But knowing long term, it's going to be a lot less of a cognitive load.
William Curb: Yeah, it was funny the other day when I was talking with him, and I was like, oh, I'll put this together and send it to you. And I'm like, man, I don't know what I'm going to wait, could you put this together? So I don't have to say like, he's like, yeah, that is totally within my will has my oh, whoa, that is blowing my mind that I don't have to do these things that were in my head that I were have to's.
Jamie Cutino: Do you find that you enjoy your business even more now just having that support to have some of that brain powered freed up?
William Curb: Definitely. When I got my editor, I'm two weeks in on the assistant. So I'm still feeling that one out.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah.
William Curb: I mean, I'm I know I'll get there and I'll be it'll be nice.
Jamie Cutino: Yeah, absolutely.
William Curb: Are there any thoughts that you'd like to leave the audience with?
Jamie Cutino: Being high achieving doesn't mean you don't deserve support. Say no more often. If it's not a hell, yes, it's a hell no. And you can't do all the things all the time outsource when you can.
William Curb: It doesn't have to be your executive function can be someone else's.
Jamie Cutino: Offloud that shit, my friend.
William Curb: All right, well, thank you so much. I had a great time with this conversation.
Jamie Cutino: Thank you so much for having me, Will I appreciate it!
This Episode's Top Tips
Occupational therapy can provide strategies for improving executive functioning, task initiation, and completion, as well as transitioning between tasks. It is designed to help you develop and maintain the meaningful activities that are hard for your ADHD brain.
Since needs can vary daily, having a range of strategies to address different challenges is crucial for effective ADHD management. Tools like noise-canceling headphones and well-lit environments can drastically improve focus and comfort but will work differently for different people.
Recognizing that you can't do everything alone and leveraging support can lead to more enjoyment and success in both personal and professional life. When you can, it is great to outsource and delegate the things that are hard for you to complete.